My wife and I are headed to Ventura for a quick mini-vacation, since I must be back to work on Tuesday.
The hotel has lan access, so I will pop in at least once to offer my comment on tomorrow's 9/11 post.
Related to that, here is an audio commemoration site of that day, for those who feel up to it.
posted by Cthulhu @ 1:18 PM
99 comments
99 Comments:
Second!
teh yay!™
Too funny~~
Found a post on EdAb, which
linked to a (still open) course
site teh deb™ taught in '05
https://www.polis.arizona.edu/
courseHomesite.do?semester=spring05&course=
PSYC_290A-1
...for what it's worth
teh!™
And...from the month before the Iraq war started:
------------begin teh deb-----
Re: sex for no war
From: Deborah Frisch (dfrisch@pobox.com)
Date: Fri Feb 14 2003 - 21:23:25 CET
Geobear sez: dubya and company need a good fuck. Josh said something a while back about how children like to fight and grownups like to fuck.
I think there is a great deal of truth in this idea. I also suspect that many of the boys who can get it up so quickly, often and strongly to kick ass never have and never will really get into it
- I suspect lots of them are
latent homosexuals who don't have the balls to be queer. So I would append Geobear's advice - there should be a law that before
some commander or general is allowed to send young men off to war, he must engage in some raw, primal, life-affirming behavior - if he is too fucked up to enjoy a fuck, he can choose from the following other options:
1. Play with kids or dogs
2. Hike in a canyon or on a beach
3. Pick and eat blackberries
4. Play with kids or dogs
Deb@gawd.do.I.hate.dubya
-------end teh deb™-----
Hmmm...maybe teh deb™
should've taken her own
advice before starting teh
blog brawl™
I've had plenty of other things to do that to play around with this stupid subject.
Again, for the record....
I've never defended Deborah. I came here to request that AW archives not be copied.
I was attacked first.
Anarchism is actually pretty conservative. All it means is you don't like government. Especially big government favored by Democrats.
I prefer grass roots democracy. Governance for the people, of the people and by the people.
Systems of political organization and economics are different.
I have no problem with capitalism, per se. At least the simple capitalism of the small business owner.
I have never called corporations "evil."
If your ISP uses good firewalls and IDS, you shouldn't worry about attacks from VoIP companies. That's just propaganda being spread from traditional players.
You folks have a nice evening. I'm happy you're stilll thinking about me.
More like laughing at you BoBo
Hey, rabbit! Having a nice Sunday?
Make it to church today?
Yeah, I was praying you'd get over yourself.
Glad you got to go. Thanks for praying for me, too.
I'm always encouraged when Christians follow the teaching of Christ in their everyday lives.
So many don't, of course.
Beer: You left out bird watching.
P.S. tweet tweet
You are welcome.
Really.
hosedragger! Good to hear from you.
Yeah, birdwatching. It's really pretty cool. Do you like birds, as well?
We sort of got off on the wrong foot, and I should apologize.
Thanks so much for the quick response.
bobo a deb wontabee or just a trool
take the hint just go away
rick, I'm sorry. I thought some folks on here were looking for me, so I came back.
Seems we got off on the wrong foot, but I'm just here to get along.
Thanks for participating, though.
Oh, and it's Beau, btw. I'm sure the incorrect spelling was just a fat finger keyboard mistake. I do it all the time.
No worries.
So how did all you folks meet? Great crowd here.
Beau - greetings, and if you're serious about civil discourse, I can oblige you.
Beau~~
It's funny, but I can't remember
my first visit here. I just
kinda surfed on in, liked the
senses o' humor here, n' stuck
'round. :)
teh™
Beau - I found out about this site through my brother's blogsite.
I'm completely serious.
I don't see that it's necessary for us to be so ugly to one another.
If anything, people from all sides of the political spectrum need to be finding some common ground.
It's my belief that at the end of the day, most of us just want a fair wage, good healthcare and a decent life for our families. We often don't agree on how to get there, but I think we pretty much want the same things.
Well tim, it does seem like you guys have some prior experience with one another, but that's not important.
And regarding Deborah...this is an honest question.
Do you guys really think she is a serious threat? It seems to me that the folks she's pissed off have done a pretty good job of marginalizing her.
Beau - pleased to meet ya. You may be surprised at the range of political views expressed here. Which is good.
Fair enough, Chell.
It looks like she's in some hot water with the legal system. I really don't know all the details and don't care to.
If she's as dangerous as some here believe, won't the attorney that filed the RO also work for some sort of mental evaluation and action?
Thanks to the DHDCIA undercover squad. We realize that these covert missions are dangerous, and that you are basically pilgrims in an unholy land, but trust me, it is greatly appreciated and we await further reports from the fromt lines.
Beau - Deb isn't a serious threat to the population of adults at large, but from the comments she has made on several blogsites, it's become clear to many of us that perhaps employment in the educational venue would not serve the public very well.
Hose - Hey, how are the 49ers doing? They're playing right now, right?
Sbh - This little guy is Hamtaro™, an Anime cartoon, and he's cutely grooming himself.
Petrarchan Motif, can I just call you "pet" for short?
I'm a pretty ordinary guy. Raised in a conservative, Christian household, young Republican in college, voted for Reagan and started a career in telecommunications.
Didn't go to college to do that, but that's another story.
About 1990, I started questioning a lot of things, especially about government, society and whatnot. Obviously, I've come to some conclusions that are radically different from the ones I held pre-1990, but I respect people that don't share those views.
I just think you need to be able to logically defend those views.
Oh look...Buttbeau came by to lie to us again. Notice, as I stated that I didn't think the word means what he thinks it means, I was right. But hey...I am sure the fact that he is wrong about things on a consistant basis will forever ellude him.
What's the matter oh manly birdwatcher with the hat? No birdies going tweet tweet today for you to converse with? Ever figure out that magpie problem you were having?
Why must you feel the need to lie and contradict everything you have said and did when it is written here for all to see? I think you are just used to dealing with idiots, and don't know that actual intelligent people can see through your bullshit.
now go back to your sekrit treehouse. I think they are going to be reading their "Archie" comic books soon and you wouldn't want to miss that.
Beau~
I second PetrM's comments.
Politically, we're pretty
diverse, I'm sure.
And Chell hit it perfectly.
(whispered 'teh™')
Ignore the cu-uteness at your peril! Ha!
Reminds me of Monty Python: "With the pointy teeth!"
Beau - "Pet" is just fine. And I heartily agree that people should be able to explain their beliefs and positions, and defend them with reasonable assertions.
hose, again, sorry we got off to such a bad start.
I've offered an apology, obviously you have rejected it.
Too bad.
chell, perhaps you're right.
If you want to dive the archives, fine. Copy the material you believe is relevant and turn it over to the prosecuting attorney if you feel so strongly about it.
Please don't copy material from uninvolved third parties that's not relevant.
That's all I'm saying.
Niners just scored another touchdown and are down by three. Unfortunately FOX is being quite bias towards the Cards and really focusing on them. Must be the new stadium.
Beau, sorry, you offended a great many people here and were incredibly disrespectful to the ladies. You now come in and still lay the blame on those that were there and still not apologize. You were insulting the first post you had and continued on through. You were sanctimonious and degrading and for that, you hit the list.
Now you come and start trying to smooth things over, while at the same time making escuses for Deb. If you have not taken the time to study up on all the things she has said and done, it is not up to us to do your homework for you.
if you cannot see the threat that she is and poses on a daily basis, then I am sorry..you may have great discourse with the others here, but I am not that forgiving or trusting.
While Chell has proven herself, you have not.
Good day to you.
Look, I really don't have anything else to say, other than the personal attacks should cease.
I think that's a fair and reasonable request.
Beau - We're following the legal proceedings related to Ms. Frisch's 2 RO (which are all publicly available), so we mostly drop by to see if there is any news, but then chat with each other about other things.
Also, if you care to, my brother and I amuse ourselves with dueling avatars. I gladly admit I'm a geek about that.
Beau:
I wish to extend my welcome as well. Even among ourselves, we've differed philosophically, but the conversation was interesting, which is the way we like it around here.
As it is you have already insulted someone here about going to church and made snide comments concerning it.
It ain't gonna work.
Hose - Beau is making a good effort at being reasonable and civil today, so I'm willing to hear him out.
Damn...Cards scored again. 21-31. Looks like another long season for my boys.
Dude - Bears are up 26 to 0 against Green Bay...didn't think GB was going to be that bad (notice I didn't say that the Bears are that good).
I'm with teh Pet :)
hose, respectfully, I have not defended or made excuses for Deb. Not a single time.
I've only questioned the theory that she is some sort of major menace.
Hose - whose qb-ing for the 49ers this year? Wasn't there a qb controversy in the pre-season? I forgot to follow up on who would actually start.
Pet: I am not suggesting you guys do anything. However, Beau need not blow smoke up my ass. There is only one reason he is here, and it isn't to have a friendly chat or jin in with the fun that is DHD.
Signed:
A non-straightened out Rube
Beau - It's good to ask if Ms. Frisch is a major menace. Currently she isn't, and this site is meant as a repository of information to ensure that she doesn't become one. The legal proceedings are slowly, well, proceeding, and this site will have that information as it becomes available.
Remember, we do not require membership, we do not edit or rewrite posts, and we sure as hell aren't lobbying people to not reprint anything or delete anything for the sake of covering up our asses.
I have little to no patience for hypocrites or people that treat women like dirt without provocation or the women proving that they are unworthy of being treated well..
You know, like threatening a child and considering them fair game, threatening people, stalking them, scaring them so bad that the police have to arrest them...that is the Debinition of someone who is not a LAdy.
yoda, I took offense to the fact that my very first post was responded to with a comment about not properly placing an apostrophe. The poster latched on it, and it was all down hill from there.
I thought it was childish and unimportant. I said it was puerile.
If we were having the discussion face to face, it's doubtful the person would have responded by correcting me on some grammatical or dictional faux pas.
But that doesn't really matter. It's time to move on.
Well, out in LA, we can see darn-near every crazy NFL game. I'm glad that county residents haven't been duped into a bond measure for a new stadium. We're up to our eyeballs in football stadia!
Chell - GB is going to be a pretty bad team this year, sad to say.
hose, I'm afraid you're wrong about my intentions. Life is too short to go out of your way to create conflict.
I'm a successful guy with a family. I have kids in college and a damn good life.
You know, there may be some sort of karmic bank account we don't know about. If there is, I don't want to be overdrawn.
Dude - Roddick looks like he's sleep-walking out there. He needs to pick it up in the 4th set.
pet-mo -
Just stopping by on the fly...
Beau also trashed a military guy going to Iraq shortly.
Can't get friendly with that at all.
Later, gerbils!
Beau - no hard feelings from me. This site's topic might not be of interest of you, and that's totally okay.
I have no agenda here. And to prove that, I'm going to leave your site and wish you the best.
The only agenda I ever had was to request that you don't copy from the AW archives. That's it.
All I ask in return is that you leave me out of it and cease the personal attacks against me.
As long as that happens, we're cool. If it doesn't, well, I'll be back and we can chat about why I'm still a topic of discussion.
Fair enough?
Some guy named Smith. He isn't bad, and their problems, once again, aren't with the QB. Garcia got a bad rap. If they had a line, he would still be there.
Dude:
Well, it is Roger Federer. 6 consecutive Grand Slam Finals, fer cryin' out loud! He's the first to do that.
(sniff-sniff)
...my Packers are gonna have
*another* losing season? :(
(depressed teh™) from a
Milwaukee-boi :(
Beau,
I'm curious why you took such exception to members of our group copying posts from the Abbey Web without "permission." Would you have been equally perturbe if we had simply linked?
I oersonally was accused of malpractice, attempted murder and murder by one of her sock-puppets, as well as her attempt to insult Brenda and I by posting without permission and rewriting and changing words and context several posts that Brenda and I had to make it sound like I was calling her fat and that we were having an affair. As I said, go back to your clubhouse and clean up your mess there before you go anywhere else and make demands.
fred, fair question.
It's generally considered bad Internet etiquette to copy someone's writing and post it without permission.
However, that's not the big issue.
Many people on the AW have known one another for a long time, and we feel secure posting things we wouldn't post on other sites.
In hindsight, this so-called security was little more than naivety on our part.
Lot's of folks use their real names. I do. I have nothing to hide, but some of the posters are female and they post personal information that in the wrong hands could become a problem.
We meet. Have get together's and post travel plans. Or at least we used to.
Your target is Deb. But there's also concern that some may link AW members to Deb and attack them as well.
Frankly, we don't want to be involved in this mess.
yoda, perhaps you're right. I overreacted.
But I was a little pissed that folks were scurrying around in the archives looking for dirt without properly subscribing.
So, I had a short fuse when I showed up.
I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. Now I'm asking that you respect the feelings of the members of the Abbeyweb.
Thanks, yoda. Maybe.
Right now, I'm going out to ride the bike and maybe watch some birds.
:)
You know, I used to kill a lot of birds (ducks), but shootin' with a camera is pretty fun.
And if you're secure in your manhood, you don't really give a flip what anyone thinks.
Federer wins again!
Oh, and for those interested, I guess it's now clear I'm really a Southerner and yes, I live in the Mississippi Delta, betwixt the MS and the Wolf rivers in an area most folks call Germantown.
Three in a row!
Beau~~
I understand the concern.
We have no beef with nobody
else at EdAb.
(smiling 'teh™')
Beau:
I visited Germantown a few years ago for some TN friends getting married. Nice community, but the regulation on shop signs was a little strange to me. At least that's what my TN friends kept pointing out as we drove around.
Beau,
One last thing. You said:
We sort of got off on the wrong foot, and I should apologize.
That statement doesn't constitute an apology; just the recognition that you should apologize. There is a great difference. Just like saying "Mistakes were made" doesn't constitute an admission that you made the mistakes.
A study of Frichness for Beau. Something you can take back with you and discuss with the little victim you care so much about:
"warriordumot said...
Ooh, looks like the other sicko, pathetic, possibly child-molesting daddy-o is mad at me!
So you make more money than me sinner because you had a career in "games."
Whoopie phuquing do.
You are an idiot and a moron and a sissy and totally pathetic for creating a stalker blog.
You are friends with pedophiles like Jeff Goldstein, thugs like ace of spades and the dishonorable former navy SEAL matthew heidt.
you hang out with the cesspool of the blogosphere.
i repeat: i feel sorry for your daughter. not as sorry as i feel for satchel, of course, but pretty gosh darn sorry."
"DF: I am fine to agree to disagree about whether my count without the O joke was:
a. funny
b. double entendre
Somewhere you or another dingbat said the ability to correctly pronounce double entendres was indicative of the ability to generate or understand them. I could not disagree more. It's a bitch for an American to pronounce that phrase properly. Tres dificile, je pense.
doobla entendray
i prefer dubya entendray, actually. "
"warriordumot said...
Okay logic kopz. Let's try it one more time. Jeff Goldstein and I disagree about who wrote the auntie moonbat saliva kiss. I allege that it is Jeff. Jeff alleges that it is me. One of us is wrong.
My claim is that JG has a prior history of pedophilia - lots of icky sexy stuff on lipid stupidity AND he LIKES the name "Count Cockula" which combines sexual crudeness with a children's cereal.
Anyone with half a brain sees that Jeffrey Todd Goldstein is the guy who has an issue with mixing sex and toddlers, not me. Jeffrey the stay at home dad for two year old Satchel. Yikes. Poor Satchel being cared for by Count Cockula. Blech. Ich. It is long past time for Colorado children's protective services to investigate Jeffrey Todd Goldstein, if you ask me.
The question is: Does anyone here have half a brain? "
"warriordumot said...
Cthulhu
---
I don't get it. And for the record, could you all please acknowledge how funny my "c**t cockula= the count without the O joke" is.
acknowledge it, creeps.
do it now. "
"warriordumot said...
does the pathetic, neutered sissy loser from eastern utah hang out here?
9:28 PM
warriordumot said...
does anyone here really give a fuck that the pathetic pissant "thinner!" who runs this shithole is moving?
who the fuck are you anyway, sinner?
Lemme guess. You are a sissy like denny crane, afraid to give out your name and location.
denny boy seems to have left town after his cleverness reading the Lane County docket last week!
where u be, mr. crane? mr. goldstein? i'd luv 2 talk to you manly, manly men.
you too mr. matthew heidt, shame and embarassment to the Navy SEALS.
how are things over at niggafive, anyway, matt?
speaking of niggas, anyone see that bitch on Faux Newz? I ain't sure if she's a nigga or a wigga but she sho is a c*n*!
9:39 PM "
"warriordumot said...
Remember, children were always off-limits, even to the rowdy bunch on Protein Wisdom.
---
uh, so how did jeffrey todd goldstein get his picture photoshopped onto a box of the children's cereal count chocula and how did he acquire the name count cockula.
JEFF GOLDSTEIN REFERS TO HIMSELF AS COUNT COCKULA. This is an allusion to a children's cereal.
What part of PEDOPHILE don't you understand?
10:51 PM "
"warriordumot said...
Goldstein has a, shall we say, inclusive sense of humor, so found the pun and picture funny. It was funny and clever.
--
okay. the point is that jeffrey todd goldstein accepted the monikor of count cockula knowingly and willingly.
therefore, any riffs off of that joke are also acceptable to mr. jeffrey todd goldstein. by laughing at and adopting count cockula, a joke about a children's cereal, mr. goldstein signaled that he was willing to merge his two lives (stay at home dad and blogger) and thus, all references to satchel are perfectly justified on account of how gleefully he adopted the sexualization of a children's cereal.
11:13 PM "
Do you need more? I can get some. After all, we don't delete or edit and all of the archives here are open and available for anyone to use...unlike you hypocrites
Daqmn. 34-24 cards, a minute and a half left. Lost first game of the season...again. Gonna be a long one.
HOLY SHIT WHAT A CATCH!!! 36 secs.
WHAT!!!!! a penalty!!!! bullshit!!!!!!!!
For dee record:
The HoseD has a long memory.
Just like the Internet.
teh!™
27-34, 32 secs left, Niners setting up for an on-sides kick. On the edge of the barcalounger AAAAHHHH!!!
If they pull this out of their ass...
NINERS RECOVERed THE ONSIDe!!!!!31 Secs to go, no time outs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smith can set himself up to be a huge hero right now and mark his career from this point if he pulls this off.
COMPLETION!!!!! 20 yard pass!!!!!!!! On the 40
Incomplete in EZ 6secs left
SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Game over...Niner's lost. Damn it.
OK...gloves off...days ruined until the Simpsons Season Premiere in 3.5 hours. Don't anyone poke the Hoseman.
OK..Dallas lost so the day isn't a total bad.
No offense to my frieds from Texas of course intended. Niners fan...you understand.
If you lay with crap, don't expect to come out smelling clean
Football over. Time for "Wallace and Gromit"
Almost 5 years to the date, another member of "The Religion Of Peace" may have been trying again
Chell:
I don't think you quite got the analogy
Could smoeone provide an example of smoething that civilizations things to be good and moral that Debbie hasn't insulted or desecrated?
Ouch Hose...
Reprinting all that in a row opened some partially scabbed over wounds.
Grrrrrr.....
Packer Fans!
Teh YAY!
I should have known that people with grace, wit and style would have good taste in NFL teams!
Could smoeone provide an example of smoething that civilizations things to be good and moral that Debbie hasn't insulted or desecrated?
Fertilizer
Sinner,
What time are you posting the 9/11 thread? Over night when you hit the hay or in the morning?
Beau,
On a dead thread you said:
Sinner, your premise and conclusions are flawed.
Could you please explain?
HoseD, Fred~~
I can think of something:
teh deb™ actually likes dogs.
(though, then again, so did
Manson :p)
Posting in the morning. I will make a thread for comments related to the stories, then the main story thread.
I got your email, rabbit. Do you want me to cut-n-paste?
yes,please.
I'm happy to post my thoughts on 911. Right now. Why wait till tomorrow. They'll be the same then.
911 was an act of terrorism against living things. It was wrong. A heinous act.
Was our government involved or complicit? I don't know. There's insufficient evidence to support direct involvement as some have stated.
But I do know this.
Politico-industrialists are getting a lot of mileage out of it as they work to expand the military industrial complex and control of vital resources.
I think it's pretty clear that our ecomony is dependent on militarism. The numbers bear that out. In order for the Pentagon to justify continued expenditures, they must clearly show there's a need, and the war on "terror" is a godsend. A continually expanding and changing list of enemies, many unnamed...a conflict with no end in sight.
It's big money, folks. And I don't put anything past people when billions of dollars are at stake.
The whole thing is unsustainable. And with Peak Oil right around the bend, well, it's coming to end, like it or not. Perhaps not our lifetimes, but it will end.
Right now, the U.S. government is defending our way of life. No question about it.
The key question is this. Is our way of life and justified in light of what it costs to maintain it?
New thread
Beau,
You are welcome to post that on the tribute thread tomorrow. I will delete it because it does not follow the rules I have set out, but you are still free to post it.
We've checked into the hotel. We have wifi, so I will be online from time to time.
Beau, speaking for myself, I promise not to copy quotes at AbbeyWeb from anyone but Deb without their explicit permission. I have no desire to offend anyone at your site, or to offend them here or anyone else.
Questions for clarification:
1. Would you object to paraphrases of the content? On the whole, the only time we'd care about what someone else says is if they offer a particularly good response to something Deb says.
2. would you object to links to posts in your archives?
What Yoda attributed to me earlier in the thread was not me. I'd hate to take credit away from Hosedragger. My only focus is on Frisch. But I do understand why Hose and others have taken offense at your comments.
Beau, you need to understand that at this point, Deb Frisch is a public figure, and since her notoriety is based almost exclusively on the comments she's made on other people's web pages, that is what is newsworthy. She's been covered on television, radio, newspapers, and (she keeps lobbying for) Stephen Colbert. She thought, in the aftermath of what she calls "the blog brawl," that this would be her gateway to Leftist pundit stardom.
She is fair game. Her comments, everywhere and anywhere, are fair game. Becuase I got into this to prevent her from further attacking innocents, I don't want to stomp on the rights of innocents in an effort to document her words, and I will do what I can.
Beau said:
"Do you guys really think she is a serious threat? It seems to me that the folks she's pissed off have done a pretty good job of marginalizing her."
Beau,
With all due respect, Deb has done a fabulous job of marginalizing herself!
You probably noticed over the years that Deb has been disruptive an abusive to people on the EdAb site. This record is open to the world, including future employers and life partners. Employees everywhere are also googling each other, as are bloggers, as you can see. The sense that your online postings are private is, as you said, naieve.
A wise person once told me never to say anything that I would not want to see on the front pages of the newspaper.
The people here are convinced that Deb's patterns of behavior are longstanding and that her malicious nature is of import in the meetspace world.
There are many people in the cyberworld who are abusive, yes. But I don't buy into a theory that everyone is like this when they feel they are more anonymous behind the keyboard. Online behavior tends to be magnification of who they are in real life.
From spending some years in customer service, I can tell you that person who would express polite dissatisfaction face to face will be more agressive in a phone call and can get downright virulent in an e-mail. This personality is still theirs, not some evil twin who takes over when no one can see them.
Deb's sport of attacking people in cyberspace has gotten very dangerous. She has written massive tirades about her former colleagues and the reasons she claims to have been denied tenure. She names names, dishes dirt on their personal lives and posts warnings and threats to them.
Her blatherings on the website of her chosen profession are inappropriately abusive as well and the very people she claims to be on par with are shaking their heads in disgust.
I have the distinction of having had dealings with her in meetspace for several years and the thought that THIS is her real face sends a cold chill up my spine. I DO believe she poses a danger to herself and others. I would fear for my safety if I had to be in her presence, especially as an employer or fellow employee.
Beau said: "We sort of got off on the wrong foot, and I should apologize."
Folks, I think this is a common way of saying that he IS apologizing. In certain parts of the country, people would understand that he is apologizing with this comment. My family is that way and I didn't realize that other people would still be waiting to hear the words until someone pointed it out. It's a communication style, not a slight.
Beau said "Your target is Deb. But there's also concern that some may link AW members to Deb and attack them as well."
No problem there, Beau. No one wants to get into y'all's business at the EdAb site, It's a Deb thing.
"Frankly, we don't want to be involved in this mess. "
I can see why
" I don't see that it's necessary for us to be so ugly to one another." My sentiments exactly. If you are here to be part of this community, I am glad to see it.
I have to admit that I am rather apolitical, so I can't speak for liberal/conservative issues more than to be frustrated with the government and sad about war. I lived through draft years, afraid of nuclear war as a kid, so it bothers me.
"If anything, people from all sides of the political spectrum need to be finding some common ground." I agree.
There are really good folks here, and their wit and passion are worth returning to daily. Whether we discuss Deb forever or not, (God I hope not!) I hope the site remains active and growing.
Maybe I am taking this too seriously, but I AM a birder. You know how we are. --goofy grin---
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